Special Collections

Special Collections Oral History Program


Gerald (Jerry) Punches

Campus School, 1948-50

BAE, 1970; MEd, 1971

Interviewer:     Tamara Belts

Date of Interview:     March 21, 2006

Location of Interview:     Interviewee's home, Port Orchard, Wash.


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Authorized Transcript

This interview was conducted with Gerald Punches on March 21st, 2006. The interviewer is Tamara Belts.

TB: Today is Tuesday March 21st,  2006 and I am here with Mr. Jerry Punches. He did sign the Informed Consent Agreement and we are going to do the Campus School questionnaire and also talk about some pictures that he has here. Here we go, letís start with this group of pictures then.

GP: As I recall, part of the questionnaire said Ďwhere did you live when you were in Campus School?í The address of this home is at 500 North State Street. Itís about two or three blocks down from the campus itself and itís on the corner of State and Cedar on the northeast corner. This house burnt down.

TB: I was just going to say, this isnít quite what it looks like!

GP: It has been replaced by some three-level structure there right on the corner. But this home was the home that my parents and I moved into when we went to Bellingham in 1948. We bought the home from Raymond Hawk.  He moved up the street. He was in the 400 block of North State Street.  It was a little bit larger but it was still on State Street. It was on the hillside between State and Forest Street.  That was one of the nicest places we ever lived. My Dad didnít know how he could ever afford it because it cost $9,500! [Laughter]

TB: That was a lot then.

GP: It was. This is a picture of my Father. Iím not sure when it was taken, but judging from the suit heís wearing, itís probably around 1950. Thatís what he looked like when he was a teacher in the school.

TB: Excellent.

GP: It doesnít look a whole lot different than this picture. This is taken in 1948 just after we moved to Bellingham; thatís me, my Mother and Father.

TB: So youíre an only child?

GP: I certainly am.  My Father always said it was better to raise one big one than a whole bunch of little ones!

TB: Your Father looks like a really cheery guy, was he?

GP: He had a nice sense of humor. Did you ever wonder where mine came from? [Laughter] This is something that came out of the archives that I got from my Father. I wrote something on the back of it here. It says, ďFrank Punches serving salmon to Dr. and Mrs. W.W. Haggard, President of the College; WWCE Summer Conference 1956.Ē

TB: Excellent; thatís a wonderful picture.

GP: Well you can have it or give me a copy of it.

TB: Yes I would love to take it in and scan it. Iíve never seen a picture of Haggard at a barbeque.  I assume this is a continuation of the ones that they had. They used to always have summer [salmon] barbeques.

GP: Yes, they had one every summer up there. Hereís something that I just dug out. It doesnít have a date on it but it has got to be around 1948. You can probably have this for your museum if you want, itís a Christmas program. Actually I put something down there, 1948. Anyway, itís a Christmas play that was put on by the kids in the junior high school.

TB: Excellent.

GP: This is all the participants.

TB: And you were Helger, a peasant boy.

GP: I was! Itís got a lot of names youíll recognize.  You can use this for whatever thing you want. The last thing was this (referring to the Alpha-Omega Yearbook).   Iíve got two of these. This came out of my fatherís stuff. Itís been in a box somewhere. Youíve probably got one of these things, donít you? If you donít, thereís a spare copy because this is mine. Itís the Alpha-Omega; Iím sure somebody has told you the story. Itís the first and last campus yearbook.

TB: Now why did they call it that?

GP: Go to the Greek section of your library and find out what alpha and omega [mean].

TB: They are the beginning and the end.

GP: There you go! You picked right up on it didnít you? Itís the first, the last, the only Campus Junior High yearbook. I donít know if youíve read through the thing or not. I go through this stuff just to kind of kick my memory into gear.

TB: Keep going, yes.

GP: Iím reading it upside down, but these are people that I knew: Dr. Haggard, Raymond Hawk (p. [4]). These were the teachers at the junior high school (p. [5]).

TB: Back up and tell me a little bit more about what Dr. Haggardís involvement with the Campus School. Did you see him very much? Did he come to assemblies?

GP: No, he was the president of the college. Iím not even sure what the enrollment was up there. 2,000? 3,000? It was a very small school. We didnít really see him all that often. We saw Dr. Hawk once in a while because his family and my family were social friends as well. I saw him probably more than anybody. Well, more than any of the other Campus School people. Like I said, I only lasted two years at the Campus School. I started there when I was in the seventh grade. Seventh and eighth grade then they shut it down and I and the rest of my classmates either went over to Fairhaven Junior High or to Whatcom Junior High. We finished the ninth grade there and then we all met again when we went to Bellingham High School.

TB: What was it like coming in for you, as a seventh and eighth grader? Was it easy to fit in with them or were they already kind of a tight-knit group? Do you think because your father was a teacher that helped you assimilate better?

GP: You know that never crossed my mind. The class wasnít all that big. I didnít count it there but there couldnít have been more than twenty people all together in the seventh grade. Most of them had come up from the Campus School itself. Iím trying to think. Maybe Bob McDonald and I were the only people that joined the class in the seventh grade. We both came in at the same time.

TB: Is that Dean [Bill] McDonaldís son?

GP: There are lots of McDonaldís on the campus. Dr. David McDonald was Bobís father. He was in the [education] department. Bill McDonald was in the athletic department. Heís the one they named the Parkway after. Yes, I knew him too.

TB: Iím sure you knew everybody. I mean, you would automatically in a small community like that. And with your father being on the faculty you probably got to know most of the faculty.

GP: Well, faculty in the education department, yes. Iím just not familiar with the numbers of faculty and students there were at the time. It could have been very small, but I didnít know everybody, thatís for sure. Anyway, those were the teachers there. Leslie Hunt was my seventh grade teacher.

TB: What was she like?

GP: She was a very professional lady. Itís kind of hard to talk about any teacher because they ran a lot of student teachers in at the same time.

TB: Right.

GP: As the student teachersí supervisor she would come in. She was kind of an enjoyable lady. You wouldnít call her friendly but she was someone you could talk to if you wanted to, or sheíd chew you out if you did something wrong!

TB: Keep you guys in line.

GP: Thatís what she did. And then my dad was my homeroom teacher in the eighth grade, but he shared that chore with Willard Stradley. It was kind of interesting, too, because Willard moved from the Campus School over to Fairhaven when they moved the ninth grade over so I ran into him over there again. Later on I always regretted that I never did try to see him. He went down to Arcadia, California to Humboldt State University and he was on the faculty down there. I wish I had looked him up when I had the chance but that was kind of an out-of-way place down there so I never did see him after we parted in Bellingham. Jean Shephard was the ninth grade teacher. I never did know much about her except who she was.

TB: What was it like having your dad for a teacher?

GP: Again, we had a lot of student teachers flowing through. In fact, the pictures that they have later on where they talk about the student teachers, all of these teachers were teachers that we had to deal with while my father was the supervisor (p. [8]). I didnít have all of these but I probably had about four or five of them throughout the year and they did most of the teaching while my father did other things. I canít remember to this day whether [the junior high] was on the third floor or the second floor. It probably would have been on the third floor because there was an auditorium on the fourth floor in the south wing of Old Main and they had an access from the dressing room area or backstage area of the theater up there that went down to the third floor which came right into my fatherís office! So any time he wanted to get out of Dodge City, I think he could go right up the stairs and disappear and nobody would know he was gone!

TB: Thatís convenient!

GP: I think there was maybe a tiny adjoining room but I think it was two rooms where we had the eighth grade. The teachers I had, I wonder if I can remember who they were. Well I remember Winifred Marion, Ed HickenbottomÖ boy! See how the memory goes?

TB: I think Jim Roberts went on to be a district superintendent for Bellingham and Richard Green went on to become the assistant superintendent for Bellingham. They are both still alive and so is John Abrams. I recognize those names because we just sent off questionnaires to them.

GP: The names just donít come back.

TB: Is Hickenbottom the one that had been in the service?

GP: Yes he was. In fact, I was thinking that he might have been the guy that gave me my first airplane ride.

TB: Really? Wow.

GP: Could have been, I might have it all screwed up! Back in 1947 my folks took me to the airport in Pullman and it was my birthday. They had this little stunt biplane out there, and they wanted to know if I wanted a ride. I think it was Hickenbottom that was there (thatís why my dad knew him) and he took me up for my first airplane ride.

TB: Wow.

GP: If Iím thinking of the right guy, he was a Marine fighter pilot in World War II, which is why he knew how to fly a biplane. I think later on he probably graduated from Washington State and then went to Western. Like I said, I might be all screwed up on that one. But it was an interesting experience for me. The rest of the student teachers I didnít really know about. I sent you a letter from when I was in the seventh grade. My coach was Pinky Erickson. Pinky was a guy I used to play ping-pong with all the time. Thatís while I was in the seventh grade because he finished school before this was out (referring to the yearbook). He doesnít show up here in this particular thing but he was the basketball coach, my first basketball coach when we were in seventh grade. Calhoun and I both made the team as seventh graders!

TB: Did you guys not have a football team?

GP: Are you kidding? What did we have, eight guys? [Laughter]

TB: I was going to say because Pinky goes on to have a famous career as a football coach.

GP: Yes he does and he was a student teacher for my father in 1948 and 1949. The reason I sent you that letter was because it had one of my recollections of when I was in seventh grade.  Everybody liked Pinky, it didnít matter which grade you were in. Like I said, he was there and I played ping-pong with him all the time but he was my dadís student teacher. One day he brought this little baby into school. He said, ďLook, class!Ē It turns out that was Dennis Erickson and was probably in the spring of 1949, sometime in there. Thatís when that happened.

TB: Do you know how he got the name ĎPinkyí?

GP: No; his real name was Robert. I think everybody wanted to know why they called him Pinky but I never did get an answer to that one.

TB: It wasnít until your letter that I actually heard his name because he is always just called ĎPinkyí. 

Why donít you tell me about the Alpha-Omega yearbook? It looks like pretty much your whole class is on it, or a good representation.

GP: Thatís for the seventh, eighth and ninth grades and Iím not sure if Iím on it or not. Well actually, Iím back there (p. [9]). Catharine Stimpson was always the honcho on these kind of projects.

TB: Yes, sheís editor-in-chief there.

GP: Yes; are you in contact with her at all?

TB: We sent her a questionnaire but havenít heard back from her. She actually was one of the later ones we sent. Everybody says if we can get all the Stimpsons, weíll have the whole story of Campus School because there were seven of them! Weíve only heard back from Mary.

GP: Yes; sheís in [Maryland].  You donít have Susan?

TB: Sheís on the committee but sheís never filled out the questionnaire; maybe she will.

GP: And her bratty little sister Caroline? [Laughter]

TB: Sheís the one we donít have an address for. I think Iíve heard sheís in Maine. Do you know what her married name is?

GP: MacDonald.  He was a legislator in the [Maine] House. I think his name was Torbert MacDonald [Torbert Hart MacDonald, Jr.], something like that. I was going to give her a bad time if I ever saw her!

TB: Well maybe Iíll find her.

GP: Doesnít she communicate with her sisters anymore?

TB: She probably does; none of them other than Mary have responded. I donít always push. We mail out the questionnaires and then we hope people will respond and if they donítÖ Susan is maybe too close to it since she is on the committee. I hope she does at some point.

GP: I can send an e-mail to Catharine. I call her ĎDodieí you know!

TB: I think I heard that! I think I heard she had a nickname. Send her an e-mail. I did just send her the questionnaire.

GP: Well this is a whole bunch of people, I kind of lost track of most of them (p. [9]). Are you interested in anybody here in particular?

TB: Which one is was Butch Brand?

GP: Butch is this guy right here, that is Robert Roy Brand.

TB: We got him. Weíve heard from Bruce Trafton.

GP: Youíve got Trafton? Thatís this little guy right here.

TB: He still has his basketball uniform. He said we could have his basketball uniform.

GP: How did he get that?

TB:  I donít know.

GP: Thatís Marcia LaVeille, Gary Wagner, Gwen Campbell. They didnít identify these people, did they? Thatís Lee Brand. He and Rob are cousins.

TB: Oh! We just heard from Lee.

GP: Is he down in Palm Desert?

TB: Yes, I think he is.

GP: Thatís the last time I saw him; that was when I went down there to play golf about thirty years ago!

TB: I know he just called last week and talked to my boss.

GP: This was Marilyn Walter? Yes, I think Marilyn Walter. And thatís ĎDodieí.

TB: Do you now why they called her ĎDodieí?

GP: Well, I donít really know.  We just started calling her ĎDodieí or ĎToadí or something along those lines. Sheís still working, you know. I keep telling people that sheís probably got the same retirement plan as CBS because Mike Wallace and all those old guys canít ever quit working and sheís got the same mindset. I suspect that if she retires, she has to pick up the tab for her own healthcare. Thatís why she keeps working.

TB: Maybe, or maybe she just likes it, sheís a bright lady.

GP: Yes, sheís the dean of the graduate school [of Arts and Science at] New York University. I guess that pays the rent!

TB: I would think so!

GP: Iíve threatened to go to New York and call her up sometime. How about Beret? Have you heard from her?

TB: Yes, sheís been helpful.

GP: Sheís down in Olympia; and thatís Ann Kingsbury.

TB: Sheís on the committee, sheís being helpful.

GP: She knows everything that goes on here. Thatís Don Hartman. He was with us for a while but he only stayed through the seventh grade I think and then his family moved someplace else.

TB: And you donít know what happened to him?

GP: No. Thatís Dick Warner back there. I donít know what happened to him. He was a grade behind me. Thatís Celia Onkels.  Sheís had kind of an interesting life.

TB: I donít know her. I know the Onkels name, I recognize that. What happened to her?

GP: She got married and divorced to a guy she was going with at the University of Washington. We were all students at the University of Washington at the same time. His name might come to me eventually. Then she wound up down in Miami or Miami Beach.

TB: Is she the artist?

GP: Could be. Iím trying to stretch something out of my memory here. Hogan! Thatís her name. Celia Hogan was her artistic name, or her married name. She did interior design work I think.  I would have thought that Ann would have been in touch with her or maybe Nancy.

TB: It might come in later.

GP: Thatís Nancy Scheldrup.

TB: Iím pretty sure Iíve heard from her.

GP: Sheís over on the east coast; Boston I think. That looks like Allene Ross.

TB: That must be Dr. Rossís daughter. She passed away?

GP: She died, yes, at a very early age. She was only about twenty two or twenty three when she died.

TB: What happened?

GP: Iím not sure. I canít remember.

TB: Wow, thatís sad.

GP: Thatís Karen Sahlin. You are dealing with an old memory here!

TB: No, thatís great.

GP: Thatís Ernie Graham.

TB: Weíve heard from him.

GP: Oh you have? He used to be in Puyallup or something, some place down there. Edgewood? Heís got I think a doctorate in psychology and he taught at Pacific Lutheran as a professor there. 

TB: I think he completed the questionnaire online.

GP: Hereís this guy, youíre talking to him right now!

TB: Yes! And heís got on his Campus School sweater! Excellent! But you donít have your sweater anymore?

GP: Well thatís what I was kind of looking around for. I thought I had a big chest of stuff up in the attic. Thatís where I got some of this stuff. I left a lot of things at home when I went to college. The picture of the house I showed you, the one that burned down. When we moved to Bellingham, the property that we got included a vacant lot right next to that house. Itís where the old Catholic Church used to be. The house beyond that where the Nix family lived was the Parish house or the place where the priest lived. But that little area was just a big vacant lot. It had an old fish pond in it that my dad put together for goldfish and stuff like that. But sometime in the early Fifties my dad decided that he would like to build an apartment complex there. He got together with another guy and they built the two-story apartment complex thatís at 504 North State Street right now. I think that later on he sold it to a guy named Louie Lallas, who was the director of placement up there, he succeeded my father. I think Louie added a third story onto that thing because it was built for that. So if you go back there I think there are three stories up there now on that particular thing. Sometime in the early Fifties after I went to school, about 1955 or so, that building was completed and my mom and dad moved into an apartment on the upper level at that time and they rented out the two places on the lower level. One was to Synva Nicol.

TB: Oh, right, the Kindergarten teacher.

GP: Yes. And I canít remember who the other one was. Anyway, down at the bottom of that thing was this big trunk of mine that had all this stuff in it. I think thatís where that sweater and that letter are. So the next time you go to Bellingham you might ask somebody, ďDid you find an old trunk in here?Ē Itís got all this old stuff in it!

TB: If you find it, just to let us borrow it, I think would be great.  We have found a letter. Someone had a letter because she was a cheerleader; she had the ĎCí.  Iím sure it was the same kind of letter you [boys] had.

GP: Yes, a blue ĎCí. It was the same colors as Western. Thatís Sue Green as I recall. Is she on there?

TB: Yes, Susan Green.

GP: That was John Greenís younger sister. Where is John? Heís down inÖ I want to say [Healdsburg], California.

End of Tape One, Side One; Start of Tape One, Side Two.

TB: Excellent. Is that Kathryn Davis? We just saw her name, right?

GP: That is, sheís at Fresno. Thatís Kathy Davis. She may have been married and gone on with her life now. I think she lost one of her children.

TB: Oh no.

GP: But itís a place to start.

TB: I should have brought the list. We may have her.

GP: Where were we here? This is Sally Moren, right?

TB: Yes, sheís ninth grade.

GP: Yes! I just saw her here. Sheís married to Bert Lindman. Bert Lindman is in my class in high school. He went to Whatcom.  Thatís Gwen Campbell and Rob Brand.  This is Gary Wagner and I havenít heard from him in a thousand years! Do you want to turn the page?

TB: Sure.

GP: Hereís some more stuff, student council officers (p. [10]). It looks like more of the same people doesnít it?

TB: How did that go? Did you change [officers]? They have two presidents. Did you go half a year [with one] president and the other half somebody else?

GP: I think thatís the way it worked but I canít remember.

TB: I know weíve heard from Larry Johanson and Jerry Larson. Curtis Smith is on the committee.

GP: Jerry Larson is alive and kicking. Curtis is selling books! [Laughter]

TB: Thatís the most popular book in Special Collections!

GP: I should have bought that thing. 

TB: And weíve heard from JoAnn Knapman and Rob Brand.

GP: Where is JoAnn these days?

TB: Sheís still in town, Bellingham.

GP: I didnít know that.

TB: I think her married name is [Praetzel].

GP: I have no idea. Is that Patricia Morse? Pat Morse?

TB: Sheís still in town (Bellingham) and goes by that name, too.

GP: Well, I havenít seen her since this picture was taken.  Thatís my friend the Reverend John Calhoun. John R. Calhoun. Thatís ĎDodieí Stimpson and Beret. That is Andra Lee Brand.

TB: And thatís Robís sister?

GP: His older sister.

TB: So sheís a year ahead of you?

GP: Yes; sheís in Bellingham or she was at the reunion we went to.

TB: I think she might be in Bellevue, but sheís in Western Washington.

GP: Thatís Sue Green and this is Becky Boroughs.  That is not who I thought it was. Yes, thatís Becky Boroughs. It wasnít Allene Ross, Iím sorry about that. Thatís yours truly again. This is Nancy Barnett? I donít know. That one escapes me. That little guy peeking out there is Chuck Lappenbusch. He was at the fiftieth reunion here last year for the class of 1955 I guess it was. Antoinette Graham, Gary Wagner, thatís Jack Payne. That is Lynn Michel, thatís Kay Williams, she is Mrs. Gomer Owens living in Bellingham.

TB: So sheís Kathleen Owens?

GP: Yes. They were both in the class of 1954 at Bellingham High School. Thatís Rob Brand and Jerry Larson. Is that Larry Johanson? Is that his name?

TB: Boy, heís small!

GP: Donít tell him that! Yes, here he is, Larry Johanson. [Laughter]

TB: I think he lives over on one of the islands, doesnít he?

GP: Yes, heís on Orcas. Thatís Karen Sahlin, Curtis Smith. I think thatís Karen. Is she on there?

TB: Yes, sheís the vice president.

GP: Curt Smith, a noted dentist around town and book salesman. Thatís Celia Onkels and JoAnn [Knapman].

TB: There you are; so tell me about your Play Day, you were the general chairman (p. [11]).

GP: Which was that? Student body activities?

TB: Yes; March 23rd at Whatcom Falls Park.

GP: Oh man!

TB: Donít remember much about that?

GP: Not at all.

TB: Thatís okay.

GP: I guess we just got all this stuff going and away we went. But the names are interesting. Jerry Ann Fickle, I donít remember her. Dixie Dunn has kind of disappeared off the face of the earth. Dee Dee Mulhern has died according to her brother Jack. Dee Dee was a year ahead of me and I think Jack was a year behind. Sidne CountrymanÖ

TB: Weíve heard from her I think, and her brother is Keith.

GP: John Mustacich, I havenít seen him in a while. Gwen Campbell I think was at the reunion. Kay Williams. Mary Jane Sefrit, I have not heard from her. Her older brother went to Campus School. Her name has probably changed. Jack PayneÖ

TB: Jack Payne is in Bellingham.

GP: Mavis Regier, I donít know what happened to her; Sally Moren, Adell Ross. Mac Kuhns, I havenít heard from him for a while. Andra Brand is a girl!

TB: Andra Lee.

GP: Grant Smith, oh dear. I havenít seen him for a while either.

TB: Heís one of the Western Roofing kids, right? His father owned Western Roofing?

GP: I think so. He had a younger brother, too.

TB: Winton I think.

GP: Butch Brand, Dick Warner, Jack Larson Ö

TB: Oh, Jerryís little brother then.

GP: Jerryís little brother, yes; Jack was in my class.

TB: They are at least a two-generation family because their mother went to Campus School, too.

GP: Yes; they lived right down from Campus School on Twenty-first Street. Twenty-first Street doesnít exist anymore; they built the campus over it! Letís see, this is Ann Kingsbury, I saw her at the reunion. She just lost her husband not too long ago.

TB: Richardson, too? I know her first husband Rogan Jones died young, he had MS or something.

GP: Yes, he did. That was a real tragedy and a shock because he was only about 42 or something like that; a very nice, brilliant guy. He went to Yale I believe. We played on the Campus baseball team together when I was in the seventh grade. I worked my way up to be the pitcher and he was the catcher. He was two years ahead of me. He wonít show up in this book but heís a Campus School guy and he died too young. Ann remarried Dick Richardson. He just died this last year. Bob Cederstrom I saw at the reunion. Heís the class of 1955. His father was on the faculty at Western also. I donít know where he was from; Keith Countryman, Gail DeGrace Ö

TB: I have not heard that name before.

GP: Thatís a ďhim.Ē

TB: Oh! Gail is spelled the way I associate with being women.

GP: I know. Well if you are in touch with Ann Kingsbury, sheíll tell you about Gail. She knows more about him than anybody. He went down to California somewhere. He has probably got a picture in here somewhere.  Marilyn Walter Ö

TB: Was that Dr. Walterís daughter?

GP: Don Walter in music?

TB: Yes, is that his daughter?

GP: I think so. Don Hartman I told you about briefly. He left after the seventh grade. Gerald Micholson. I can vaguely put a picture on his face. I think he stayed through high school but he and I werenít close at all. Celia, I told you a little bit about her. I also heard at the reunion that she might be down in the San Diego area now, I donít know. Leib Alexander, I know too much about him!

TB: Those are the best stories!

GP: Yes. Tom Trammell.

TB: Do you know what happened to him?

GP: No, I donít.

TB: At least thatís a distinctive name.

GP: Bruce Trafton.

TB: Heís in Eugene I think.

GP: Marguerite Smith. I havenít heard anything about what happened to her. I just donít know. Russell Rude Ö

TB: Do you know what happened to him?

GP: Well I saw him at the Campus School reunion we had. When was it, ten years ago?

TB: 1993; so heís probably on our list then.

GP: Jerry Larson, he was at last yearís thing, I saw him two years ago. Catharine, when did I see her last? She was giving a guest lecture series on womenís issues and so she came to Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, where I was employed at the time as the registrar. I went to see her lecture.

TB: And what did you think? Did she recognize you?

GP: Oh heck, I knew she was coming because somebody asked me if I knew her or something. I said, ďYouíve got to watch out for this girl!Ē She came down there and gave her lecture and Helen and I took her to lunch. We had a good time. But that was about the last time Iíve seen her. Iíve done some correspondence with her via e-mail so I know where she is. She is somewhere in New York. Paddy Jukes, I saw her at the reunion for the class of 1955. She seems to be doing fine. I didnít recognize her. You know, women change!

TB: Thatís what we say about men! Women change, too? Everybody can change.

GP: Don Cameron. Iím trying to put a face on that. It will come to me. There is probably a picture in there. Myrna Harmer, she was at our reunion. She lives down in Ventura, California. I think Iíve got her married name somewhere. I might be able to get something to really help you with some of these people. Jon Franklin, that one escapes me. Chuck McEvoy. Itís coming back hard!

TB: Tell me about that. You went to visit Fairhaven because thatís where you were going to transfer.

GP: Yes. We were the eighth graders. We were going to go over there and become part of the ninth grade class. We had a day where we went over there. We knew a lot of the people that went to Fairhaven. The boys played ball with them and there were a lot of neighborhood kids. We had a big neighborhood and they all went to Fairhaven and we went to Campus. It was basically a really easy thing to do. Yes, the junior high only existed for thirteen years.

The ninth graders are a year older than me (p. [14]). I guess itís got everybody down here, whoís who? Is that Marilyn Walter? It could be. Thatís Chuck McEvoy up there. Tom Trammell is this guy way back here, he was kind of a big kid. Sidne Countryman is this girl right here. Donald Andrus, I think he died.

TB: I think he did, too.

GP: Nancy Barnett, I donít know, that might be her. Becky Boroughs, we identified her before, is right there. Andra Brand is this one. Sidne Countryman is this one.  Barbara Hansen, sheís tall, there she is, a tall blond. Paul Hanson; where is the founder of Mount Baker Savings and Loan? Thatís Trammell in there. Paul Hanson isnít shown here. LeRoy Hurd and I played basketball together. Larry Johanson is this one up here. Jerry Larson is this one. Chuck McEvoy is that one. Gerald Micholson is this one I think (donít quote me on it). Sally Moren is here. Alice Adelia Mulhern, I know thatís her. Janet Rathman, Iím not sure about that. Mavis Regier, I think thatís her right there. Allene Ross. She and Becky looked an awful lot alike. Thatís why I made that mistake! She died at a very early age, too. Russell Rude is back there. Karen Sahlin is there with the glasses. Curtis Smith, heís in there. Gary Smith is right there and Tom Trammell. Marilyn Walter should be this one right here I think.  So the ninth grade I didnít know a lot about, well, I knew them, but not as well as I knew people in my own class. I canít even remember if I saw this or not.  So I donít know about all this sort of stuff, baby pictures from ninth graders (p. [18]). Iím sorry, I canít recognize any of those. But get into the eighth grade here and now we know a few things (p. [20]). Letís see, they ought to have little numbers on all these things!

TB: To tell who people are? Yes.

GP: There are only a few people I think that can do what Iím about to do. Maybe a lot of other people have figured it out. In the top row up here, upper left, you start with Bob McDonald.

TB: So he was your friend that came in the same year you did?

GP: Yes, our fathers joined the faculty the same year, the fall of 1948. He came up from Riverside. Heís currently living in Holland, Michigan.

TB: Oh, you sent me his address, thatís right.

GP: Yes. Thatís Leib, thatís Bill Davis, thatís John Green. That is Jim Wallin. Jim Wallin had an affliction of some sort [and] it took his life when he was about nineteen or twenty years old. Something was haywire in his brain. I canít even remember what it was. He had to live in an institution after the got out of high school. It really became bad. Iím not sure what it was. Is that Vince Mustacich? It should be. Do you have him down here?

TB: Yes.

GP: Thatís Mustacich, yes, thatís him. Thatís Myrna Harmer, Marita Longstreth.

TB: Her father was a doctor I think.

GP: Well I was playing golf somewhere and I ran into a guy named Longstreth and I said, ďI knew a lady named Longstreth a long time ago.Ē He said, ďMarita?Ē And I said, ďYes!Ē So we had a long chat about that but I donít remember much more of the conversation. Anyway, thatís me back there, thatís Ernie Graham, thatís Mike Lockwood. Have you heard from him?

TB: It doesnít sound familiar to me. I donít remember him.

GP: The last I heard he was in Fairbanks, Alaska.

TB: Well we do have some people up in Alaska although I think one of them is Mimi Eddy. Who did you say that was?

GP: Mike Lockwood is this guy here. They ought to number these people! How are you going to remember them after youíve left! I guess somebody else will figure it out. This is, well we called him Harry Gates but he didnít like Harry Gates so he wanted to be known as Don Gates. If you are looking for Harry Gates you might try looking for Don Gates! He never did like that name. Back over here, thatís Gwen Campbell, Ruth Rairdon, Catharine Stimpson and Jan Van Aver. Her father was on the faculty.

TB: I think weíve heard from her; her brother Phil is in New York.

GP: Thatís Marguerite Smith. I gave you Ernie before didnít I? Thatís Kay Williams. Thatís Ann Kingsbury, Nancy Scheldrup, Celia Onkels, Don Hartman, and Robbie Calhoun. His name is John Robinson Calhoun.

TB: And he always went by Robbie at home I think, right? And then when they got to school there were already a couple Johns in his class and so the teachers called him by Robbie.

GP: I donít know. He was born in Chicago. He was adopted by his father and mother, the Reverend Willard Calhoun.

TB: Oh! I donít think I ever heard he was adopted.

GP: Well he was, thatís why [his middle name is Robinson], the familyís name was Robinson.

TB: His original birth family?

GP: Yes, so thatís why he became John Robinson Calhoun. Heís a very good friend of mine.

End of Tape One, Side Two; Start of Tape Two, Side One

GP: Moving right along, this is Dixie Dunn, thatís Adell Ross, thatís Marcia LaVeille, thatís Beret Funkhouser, thatís Mac Kuhns, thatís Gail DeGrace in case you ever wanted to know what he looked like a long time ago. That is Jack Larson.

TB: So Jerry was in the class ahead of you?

GP: Yes.

TB: So do you remember some of the activities that you guys did?

GP: Well as a matter of fact, hereís a whole list (p. [21])!  Do I remember them? I have no idea.  I know we had Splash Parties. We went over to the gym over there and we had Splash Parties. What was the name of that gym? Was it Carver Gymnasium?

TB: Well it became Carver but then it should have just been the Gym [Physical Education Building].

GP: Yes, well, we would go over there and we would have a little Splash Party.

TB: Whatís a Splash Party? You would just get in the pool and splash each other?

GP: You go and put bathing suits on and you swim for about an hour and then do something else. We swam or played in the gym from seventh to eighth and after eighth we danced in the eighth grade room.

TB: Now where was the eighth grade room, your classroom?

GP: Yes, it was up on the third floor I think, south Old Main. Do you have a layout map of those facilities for the junior high school?

TB: No, weíll have to find it. We have a map of the Campus School itself but not of the junior high. And I want to find one because it will help all of us remember what it was like.

GP: If you are looking north along Old Main it was on the southwest corner where you have the auditorium in the corner of the building there. If you go down one flight from there, youíll run into my dadís office and adjoining that would have been the eighth grade room. If you went out into the hallway going north and turned left into a corner room; that was the seventh grade room. Then youíd turn right and go down the hallway and thereís that horrendous long passage in Old Main that goes forever.  You would go down the end of that and the ninth grade room was down kind of on the east end of that wing and then they had a little canteen room where we would sell candy and snacks or we could go play cards or do something like that Ė kind of a recreation room. Then between them there was a stairwell that went all the way down. Down on the first floor under the area where the seventh and eighth graders were was the boysí locker room. You would go to the right as you would come in that entrance on the south end and go to the right. Itís now a big lecture hall but that used to be the gym.

TB: Now I think itís the Old Main Theater.

GP: Is it? Could be.

TB: From what people have said I think thatís what it is.

GP: These are music things; music goes in one ear and out the other for me!

TB: Oh wow, thatís like somebody predicting the future (p. [22-23]).

GP: That was.

TB: I would be curious to see how much of that came true!

GP: Hardly any of it I would bet!

TB: So Ruth Rairdon must have been really religious.  Ann Kingsbury, [sounded] like she might have been artistic.

GP: Oh yes, she is. Iím a sportscaster it says here.

TB: There you go!

GP: Ernie is playing ball. Well hereís the future (p. [24])!

TB: Robbie Calhoun wanted to be a pro athlete. Where are you at? Gerry Punches wanted to be a millionaire!

GP: Yes! Iím working on it! [Laughter]

TB: Thatís fun; ďTypewriter mechanic Ė Don Hartman.Ē Wow! Ernie Graham wanted to be a bat boy for the Boston Red Sox!

GP: Yes!

TB: ďAnything except writing things like thisĒ is John Green!

GP: In the seventh grade have you got somebody you are going to interview (p. [26])? Robís in that class, Rob Brand.

TB: Yes, we did do him, and he clued us on to Pete Gaasland.

GP: Pete is living up in Blaine I guess.

TB: He has some business or something in Bellingham because I noticed he had a Bellingham address. Now Bob Funkhouser must have been Beretís brother?

GP: Yes, letís see, itís got them all listed here: Lee Brand, Rob Brand you know about. Don Cameron. Bob Cederstrom. I donít know all these. Kathy Davis, there she is with glasses and braces!

TB: Attractive in seventh grade!

GP: Yes, we were all that way! Paul Everett, Bob Funkhouser.  I saw him at the reunion of the class of 1955. Heís doing alright. Thereís Myrnaís little sister, Holly Harmer was the smallest girl in the class right here.

TB: Her name sounds familiar. I might have just dealt with her.

GP: Well I can get you her older sisterís address. Do you know Myrna Harmer?

TB: Iíll have to figure out who we donít know from your class and see if you know where they are.

GP: John Mustacich is Vinceís little brother. I lost track of him for just a minute there. Jack Payne, Grant Smith. Grant Smith is the younger brother of Gary Smith. Thatís the Smith connection that I was trying to come up with. Bruce Trafton, Gary Wagner, Karen Wallin is the Jimís younger sister. She lives down here in Gig Harbor I think. I met her at the reunion. She lives down there by the Narrows Bridge. I donít know what her new name is.

TB: I remember mailing something to somebody in Gig Harbor, so hopefully itís her.

GP: The rest of this stuff I donít know anything about!

TB: Letís finish looking through that and then maybe we can run through the questions because maybe youíll be able to expand a little bit.

GP: Sure; letís go see what we all did here, ďDrama and music (p. [31]),Ē The Taming of the Shrew (p. [32]).

TB: You were the narrator.

GP: I was? I donít remember doing that. What is it, my dulcet voice? [Laughter] I donít know how I got into these things; probably because I couldnít act!

TB: Well do you remember that? Did they do a lot of theatrical kinds of things?

GP: They tried to do something like this one. That was presented on April 26th and this was on April 18th  (p. [33] The Stolen Prince) so we were doing a lot of that stuff and had everybody kind of involved with one thing or the other. I donít really know. I showed you that little thing from Christmas. I donít think they have that in here, it might be, who knows. That would have been from the year before this was printed.

TB: Oh right, 1948.

GP: Thereís all your musical people (p. [34] The Orchestra). Thereís a bunch of girls there.

TB: Not surprising.

GP: And the chorus is the same way (p. [35]).

TB: Thatís because you guys were probably out doing your sports. So tell me about basketball.

GP: This was the eighth grade team that I was on. This was the last year they had basketball there (p. [38]). These people are all identified, arenít they? Larson, Calhoun, Jack Larson, Gerald Micholson, the manager, Jerry Punches, Chuck McEvoy. Oh good! Iím glad I got that connection there now. Don Andrus, Paul Hansen [not in picture].

TB: Was this when Pinky Erickson was your coach?

GP: That was the year before, this year I think Willard Stradley was the coach.

TB: He was your eighth grade teacher also, right?

GP: Yes; I donít think they had a guy who was ready to coach or could coach or something. I donít know what the problems were.

TB: Do you remember roughly how long your basketball season lasted (when it started and when it ended)?

GP: It probably started in the middle of November for practice. We had a few games in December and then through January, February, March. We would usually have a game on Thursday or something, or Friday.

TB: Were they afternoon games?

GP: Yes, because we would have to go to some other school I think. We would play around the county and go to Lynden, Ferndale and places like that.

TB: When you would play at Western, what gym did you have the game in? Was it the Campus School part or was it in the big gym?

GP: It wasnít in the big gym because it was sectioned off. It had some half-court things. It wasnít the main court that we played on, it was one of the cross courts I think.

TB: But in the big gym?

GP: Yes, it was in the big gym.

TB: Do you remember Sam Carver?

GP: Sure.

TB: What was he like?

GP: I just knew him to look at him.

TB: So he didnít have too much involvement?

GP: No.

TB: Well it says he is the director of boysí activities (p. [38]). But it didnít impact you boys too much?

GP: No. I keep missing Paul Hanson. Wasnít he in this stuff?

TB: What about your baseball team (p. [39])?

GP: What I remember is, ďWeíre going to have a picture over by the library.Ē ďWhen?Ē ďNow.Ē ďHow come you arenít in uniform?Ē ďNow? Why didnít anybody tell me?Ē So off I go. Hereís the rest of the team in uniform. Thatís why Iím sitting up there!

TB: You missed some kind of [announcement].

GP: Something like that. I donít know. Thereís Jon Franklin. This isnít right. Theyíve got Jerry Larson. This is LeRoy Hurd. This is Pete Gaasland. They left out Jerry. Rob Brand. Ernie Graham, Harry Gates, Jack Larson. Back row: Mike Lockwood, Lee Brand on third, John Green on first, Jerry Larson (catcher). Thatís not Jerry Larson! This is Gary Wagner.

I do a bunch of genealogy and I look at pictures that people have left me. I turn them over. When was this taken? Who are these people? Couldnít somebody just have sat down and done something like that (written that information down)?

TB: The problem is, at the time people know who they are! We have some of those in our family, too.

GP: So this is what Iím doing here. Iíll put this thing in here. That is Gary Wagner at first, Robbie Calhoun (center field), Don Andrus. Thereís a picture of Don Andrus! Russell Rude (left field). Let the record be corrected!

TB: So do you remember some significant baseball games or have significant memories of the baseball games?

GP: Of course! See that? ďJerry Punches Ė pitcher.Ē

TB: Alright! So did you pitch some no-hitters?

GP: We went to Meridian. I pitched a no-hitter!

TB: Excellent!

GP: The Meridian team had another great pitcher, too. He also pitched a no-hitter!

TB: So this was a 0-0 game!

GP: It should have been. I canít even remember who it was. The thing I do remember about it was we had a guy on our team, it was Ernie Graham, heís on here somewhere. Ernie was a good ballplayer. We were saying, ďErnie, hit this ball!Ē And it went through the hole into right field. But Ernie was kind of slow, so the right fielder picked up the ball and threw him out at first! Dang it! We could have avoided a no-hitter if Ernie could have run faster! I think we eventually lost because we bobbled a lot of things but thatís the way it went.

We didnít have a competing football team. We played intramural teams and [had] swimming class.

TB: You played tennis (p. [40])!

GP: Well yes, thatís just to go lob a ball back and forth though. The cheerleaders! Thereís Allene and Andy and Dee Dee and Sally.

TB: They liked to take pictures on the front of the library because there have been a couple pictures taken on the library steps. Thatís the library steps again.

I love that (referring to quote in yearbook); ďCabbages are green, carrots are red, itís been a nice year, but youíve got rocks in your head.Ē John Green. ďDonít marry her for money. Marry some baby who will call you honey for your money.Ē Harry Gates.

GP: There you go!

TB: Words of wisdom there for you!

GP: Oh yes.

End of Tape Two, Side One; Start of Tape Two, Side Two

Alumni Questionnaire

TB: How did you happen to attend the Campus School?

GP: Well, that was easy, my father got a job at Western starting in the fall of 1948. As a brand new ďfaculty brat,Ē I had preference for getting into the Campus School. I think all faculty sent their kids to the Campus School unless the kids wanted to opt out of it for some reason.

TB: Was it at all difficult coming in at seventh grade by being a new kid or was it easy to be assimilated into it?

GP: It was real easy. Like I said, the class was not that big. In fact, how big was the class? Did we ever make a count? Letís see. There were about thirty people in it. So it wasnít all that big of a class and that might be [part of it]. It was a very cordial group. Most of the kids were socially compatible and need I say brilliant.

TB: Thatís good.

GP: We didnít have any problems then.

 TB: That group would have been in Campus Elementary School up through sixth grade, so physically, seventh, eighth [and ninth] grade would have been separate over there in Old Main.

GP: But it was the same kids and like I said it was just Bob McDonald and me. We were the only ones who came in seventh grade.

TB: What were the years and grades of your attendance?  

GP: We started in the fall of 1948 through the spring 1949 and then 1949 and finished in 1950. In the fall of 1950 we all had to transfer over to either Fairhaven or Whatcom Junior High and finish up ninth grade there.  

TB: Where did you live when you attended the Campus School? I know you showed me a picture, [what was the] address?

GP: Yes, that was 500 North State Street. It was on the Northeast corner of the street there. That was a house that was formerly owned by Raymond Hawk, who was my fatherís boss. Raymond sold that house to my dad and then he moved down the street to the middle 400s.

TB: So was that the house you moved into then right when your [family] came to town? 

GP: Yes it was, that burned down. If you go down there now you will see a brand new three-story condo complex or something there. The garage is still behind it!

TB: Iím going to go look for that trunk! Do you remember what you guys did for lunch? 

GP: Old Main on the third floor I believe on the south end was where seventh, eighth and ninth grade classes were held. In that complex right on the side toward Sehome Hill they had a little recreation room or a lunchroom kind of set out for you. We had a little canteen there where we could go buy candy bars or a Coke or something like that, play cards. I think we had our lunch there.  

TB: Do you remember any of your favorite classmates and can you tell me a little bit more about them? Like Robbie Calhoun? 

GP: Well letís see, are any of them lawyers now? [Laughter] 

TB: Good point! 

GP: We had some regular guys that we ran around with. I ran around with Robbie Calhoun, Leib Alexander, Bob McDonald, Bill Davis and maybe one or two others. We were kind of close as a group. I donít know why it came out that way, but thatís just the way it was.

TB: Alright; and then you had also listed Catharine Stimpson.

GP: Yes! Later on when we were in high school we would all go over to what we called ďDodieís placeĒ on South Forest Street. We would play cards at her place or listen to music.  We always had a good time at her place. It was a mansion because her father was a doctor, so we loved going over there! They had a tennis court, too. And Bob McDonaldís house was only about half a block away from that. I could walk there no problem.

TB: So it made a nice gathering place. Tell me about your favorite or most influential teachers. What was Miss Hunt like? We talked a little bit about her.

GP: Like I said, we were exposed to a lot of student teachers and the principle teacher wasnít too involved with our daily activities, but once in a while we would have to have a wrap on the knuckles because we did something offensive to the student teacher. It was all in good fun. Of course, I have to say my father was my most influential teacher but it wasnít because of anything he did in the classroom.

TB: How was that? Do you have any other thoughts about him as a teacher when you were in your class? Was it kind of filtered out because of all the student teachers?

GP: [It was lessened] because of all the student teachers. He had a few things. I think he had to put me down one time because I did something that I shouldnít have done and it embarrassed him and so I learned a lesson -- donít goof around in my fatherís class when heís teaching because Iíll get double whatever the punishment is!

TB: Do you at all remember trying to take advantage in any way (as a class) of the student teachers? Or play jokes on them?

GP: Of course we did but I canít remember what they were. I really liked Pinky Erickson when I was in the seventh grade. Like I said, he was a good athlete, he was my coach when I was in the seventh grade. I can still remember a day when I was sitting in a typing class and he came up to get me. He came into class and he says, ďThereís a game on today.Ē  ďMaybe heís come to get me.Ē And he was! I got to go suit up for the game as a seventh grader and I got out of typing class!

TB: Alright!

GP: Yes; Pinky was a real nice guy and like I said, a good athlete. I spent a lot of time learning how to play ping pong with that guy. I became a fairly decent ping pong player because of it.

TB: Now where was the ping pong table at?

GP: It was up in that hallway between the entrance to the eighth grade and the entrance to the seventh grade.

TB: Do you remember what kinds of learning materials you used?

GP: I believe theyíre called books. [Laughter] And pencils that sharpened up.

TB: Did you have regular school textbooks then, not materials created by your teachers?

GP: I think they relied mostly on books for that. Of course, we had access to the library if we had research projects to do. We could go over to the library; they had an extensive collection there.

TB: Who helped you in the library? Was that Mr. Hearsey?

GP: We knew Herb Hearsey because he lived close to where the McDonalds lived.

TB: Did he help you do your library research or was that Miss Snow?

GP: Miss Snow, that sounds somewhat familiar. But we would go to the library quite a bit and we knew how to be quiet and do our business and then get out of there.

TB: What kind of grading system was used when you were there?

GP: Letter grades.

TB: Do you especially remember any creative activities? You talked about woodshop.

GP: Woodshop, yes, I built a footstool in woodshop.

TB: Do you still have it?

GP: I donít know. I told you whatís in the basement of the apartment unit at 504 North State, itís not the one on the corner, itís the one next to it where my folks lived.

TB: Do you have any thoughts about what it was like to be observed so often by student teachers?

GP: I never thought much of it.

TB: You had came from a [different] background though if you came in seventh grade, but it still [didnít bother you]?

GP: I didnít ever feel like I was being observed. Weíd have our task assigned to us. Of course, everybody evaluates everybody else. I can remember one time we were doing some basic math Ė fractions or something Ė they were teaching us in seventh grade. I was sitting there and they gave us an assignment so I sat down and I did them all and I got all finished in about five minutes and everybody else was still working on it. She looked at me and said, ďHow did you get that done so fast?Ē I said, ďI just do it this way.Ē What had happened to me was, I had spent the sixth grade at the Edison School in Pullman, Washington. They had showed me how to do math that way. So I came to the seventh grade at the Campus School and I didnít have any idea that it was any different anywhere else so I just started doing it the way Iíd been taught. Boom! I get through there ten minutes ahead of everybody else! ďBoy, is that guy smart!Ē  No, I just knew something different.

TB: Thatís interesting. You probably donít remember how else they were taught math. Some people seem to have got out of Campus School and not be very good at math and you learned your math somewhere else.

GP: From the perspective of sixty years of hindsight and some liberal attitudes that I know about, I can offer some theories and Iíd certainly get killed for saying it!

TB: We donít want anybody to get in trouble here! We talked a little bit about this, but what out-of-classroom activities did you enjoy the most and what did you do at recess, lunchtime, etc?

GP: Weíd all congregate down in that little lunchroom or break room that I talked about. As I recall, canasta was a card game that people were trying to learn at the time so weíd spend some time at that. Let me think, I was involved in the athletics -- intramural football, basketball, baseball. We had a few science experiments that we played around with. I can remember once we were trying to make some volcanoes with steam and clay and all that sort of stuff.

TB: Thatís pretty cool; any other specific thoughts about the transition when you went from Campus School to public school, the differences there?

GP: Letís see, that would have been ninth grade going over to Fairhaven [Junior High]. Honestly, I canít recall any differences. As I mentioned earlier, we knew many of the kids that we were going to be joined with simply because we were in the same neighborhood. They had all gone to Fairhaven, they didnít go to Campus, they went to Fairhaven on the south side of Bellingham. We just joined up and met a few people weíd known all our lives but never gone to school with.

TB: Since you came to Campus School late, did you have any other thoughts about how different it was from the public school experience you had before that?

GP: Not really. One interesting thing that you might have noticed, Willard Stradley was involved with the eighth grade activities at the Campus School. But when the transition took place, he went to Fairhaven. So he became one of my ninth grade teachers as well. There is hardly any transition because a person doesnít really come in and adapt a whole different set of skills or attitudes or teaching methods. I didnít notice any difference.      

One difference that you do notice, at Campus School everything was kind of taught in one classroom to the same group. When you got to the ninth grade, you had math in one class then youíd go to English class somewhere else and PE or woodshop, things like that.

TB: You said that Mr. Willard Stradley and your father both taught you in eighth grade. How did they kind of divvy up their job?

GP: My father was a student teacher supervisor and a lot of his work took him out of the Campus School to other schools. He went around to all schools in the county. Student teachers, they placed them in different areas all over; Nooksack Valley, eventually down into Edison, Bow and Everett. I donít know how far his range was, but he had to be out there going to visit those schools quite a bit as part of his regular assignment. So they needed somebody to kind of hang around there in the eighth grade and do supervisory work there, too. Stradley was that person.

TB: What other further education did you pursue?

GP: The school of hard knocks!

TB: You have a lot of credentials here!

GP: I went to the University of Washington for three years and found out I was on the wrong career path there.  I said enough of this and went down and saw my good old Navy recruiter and he says, ďWell, we can put you into the ĎNavcadí program because youíve got at least two years of college.Ē I said ďOkay, that sounds good to me.Ē I joined the Navy in the fall of 1957. They sent me down to Pensacola in January of 1958. I went through the pre-flight training program and spent a year there at Pensacola and six months at Corpus Christi, Texas. I got my commission and Navy wings in August of 1959. Then I was on active duty on the east coast for another three and a half years.

TB: And you went to Vietnam.

GP: Well, not quite at that moment. Once I finished my tour of duty then I thought I better go back to school. I got out of the service and by then I was married and had a child on the way, so I was back at the University of Washington trying to finish up and get that elusive degree! Little did I know how difficult that would be, just because all the credits that I had accumulated were in the wrong place. If you needed to switch majors or alter your career path, you had a long way to go. You know, I [took] that advice to heart because later on in my life I became a counselor to lots of people in a college environment and I made it a real point to start figuring out where people were, what their aims were, what they found was easy for them to do, what was difficult for them to do. I said, ďI am going to take it upon myself to get these people going in the right direction.Ē  I hope I have achieved some success in that.

TB: Well I noticed you came back to Western to get your bachelor of arts in education.

GP: See, then I spent another year in Seattle at the University of Washington and I added a few more credits but I didnít get anywhere closer. The Navy guy called me up and asked me if I wanted to come back in and be a flight instructor. I said, ďOkay.Ē  My wife at the time was certainly anxious to do that, so we hopped in the car and we drove to Florida and I was stationed at Pensacola for about three years. That was from 1963-1967. Then this little activity flared up in Southeast Asia so the Navy says, [ďDo you want to go?Ē] I said, ďOkay.Ē Weíll stay in for the duration of that one. I was assigned to an aircraft carrier as the shipís company and flight deck officer. I made a tour of Vietnam in 1967. Then by 1969 this business of not having a college degree kind of caught up with me as they were winding things down in the war. I didnít have any career possibilities in the Navy, so I got out again. This time I came back to Western and I knew what I wanted to do then. My Dad helped me a little bit, too. He said I could parlay some of my experience in military and get some credit or waving of some courses so I could get a teaching certificate. I put some of these old science credits to use, I got a degree inÖwhat the heck was it? I donít know!

TB: What was it like being on campus at Western in 1969? Thatís when we were our most revolutionary.

GP: 1969, 1970 is when I was there. I was married at the time. I had a second son born then. He was born in Bellingham as a matter of fact.

TB: They were having some protests during that time frame in Bellingham, did you not think anything about it?

GP: I basically ignored the protests. I can understand what protests are all about, I just donít happen to believe in them.

TB: What else could you do I guess? You either participate or you donít.

GP: Yes. I finished up with my physical science Ė thatís what it was, physical science Ė degree, education and physical science degree. I could teach science and math courses, so I did student teaching in those fields. I finally got my degree in the spring of 1970. They opened up this new program in college student personnel administration. That sounded like fun. Iím not sure I wanted to go out and teach in the public schools but being a college administrator didnít sound bad at all. This is again where my fatherís influence came in, he was the director of placement at the time. I knew a little bit about how organizations work, I thought thatís not such a bad thing. I went through that program, the college student personnel program, and I finished it up in 1971; I got my masterís degree. I somehow managed to get a job down in California at this small country school called Cal Poly! It was right at the time when there was a hiring freeze that had been lifted by Governor Reagan. I went down there. I was staying in the reserves at the time so I got a military flight out of Whidbey Island and flew down to some place. It was Vandenberg Air Force Base. I took the bus up to San Luis Obispo, had my interview, got a flight back. I think the whole trip cost me thirteen dollars!  Anyway, I was fortunate enough to be a qualified candidate and so I got the job down there as registrar.

TB: Wow, so thatís basically where your career was then, right?

GP: Yes. I spent twenty one years down there.

TB: And then you also participated in a doctoral program.

GP: I did; I still had the G.I. Bill. This is one thing I didnít have when I got out of the Navy for the first time in 1963. I didnít have the G.I. Bill. I didnít have a way to keep going on things. [But] I still had [the] G. I. Bill left [in 1971], so I went down to the University of California at Santa Barbara. I drove down there once a week for classes. I did that for a year and half or so. I completed about twenty-five or thirty credits, post-masters degree credits. Then the G.I. Bill ran out and frankly I lost interest. I talked to many people on the faculty at Cal Poly. They said, ďYouíre getting a degree in what?Ē ďEducation.Ē  ďPick a subject field! Do psychology, do something! Not education.Ē I knew a lot of guys who had a doctorate in education who were out looking for work, overqualified! Thereís something about this that I donít understand! I think I am beginning to see what itís all about here. I just quit doing that because I didnít know where I was going with that stuff.

TB: Any thoughts about how attending Campus School influenced your life?

GP: Not really; you canít put your whole life thing and trace it back to one school.

TB: Actually now Iíll shift gears a little bit because I think we went through the Campus School questionnaire. Do you have anything more to say about how you happened to choose to attend Western when you did finally come?

GP: Well there was a lot of familiarity with it. Before I had joined the Navy, I left the University of Washington after three years. In the fall quarter of 1957 I had enrolled at Western and started into a few classes there. Then I got my military orders so I had to drop out. So I had been enrolled at Western before. Besides, itís a pretty good school, as you might know!

TB: Yes, thatís great. Then your first job after leaving Western was at Cal Poly as the registrar and you stayed there pretty much for your career.

GP: Yes.

TB: Are there any personal achievements you would like us to know about such as awards, citations, decorations or personal bests of any sort? Were you the ďOutstanding Registrar of CaliforniaĒ or anything like that? [Laughter]

GP: Iím not sure. Iím kind of one of these guys that is sort of low-key. People will laugh at that, Iím sure. Iíd get some letters of recognition or some accommodations and whatnot for doing things but I kind of work under the radar so to speak -- this needs to be done, Iíll go do it. And it gets done.

End of Tape Two, Side Two; Start of Tape Three, Side One

Iím not one who goes out and looks around for things to do. Iíve been president of a bowling league. Iíve been president of the menís golf club down here for two years. I was president of a Navy Reserve organization down in California.

TB: When you were a student at Western, since you were already a family man, where did you live?

GP: When I first went up there it was a little apartment complex down there south of the campus. Then I bought a house down on Larrabee Avenue, which is right across the street from the elementary school on the hill there.

TB: It might be Larrabee School.

GP: It might be Larrabee, itís right across the street from it, 1906 Larrabee. I know that was the address that I lived at. Thereís a school right across the street and my son attended the first grade there.

TB: Do you have any favorite memories of these experiences?

GP: Not specifically. By that time I was in my mid-thirties or older and that was quite an age difference between me and most of the other kids that were going to school there.

TB: Who were your favorite or most influential teachers? We like that question! Now weíre talking about when you were a college student.

GP: First of all, I have to remember who all they were! There was [Bill MacKay]. That was in the masterís degree program, and Merle Kuder. These guys were all friends of my father, so itís kind of difficult for me to not know who these people were.

TB: Tell me a little bit about Merle Kuder because I hear his name all the time. What was he like?

GP: He was a very engaging kind of person, very provocative. He would ask you questions, educationally speaking, that would cause you to think about things and the answers that you had. Youíre asking me things that took place close to forty years ago now! The memories are just kind of fading away but see, I remembered a couple of names!

TB: Very good, very good. What about your dad? Your dad you mentioned already but he influenced a little bit of your career since he was in placement, influencing you to go into the Student Personnel Program, any other thoughts about that?

GP: Itís hard to dissociate my father from a mentor. They are kind of one and the same, you know? We would have chats about things; where am I going? What am I doing? Itís interesting that thatís what I did with my kids. Both my kids, they are two different kids. One needed to go in one direction and one needed to go in another direction. And they are very stable kids, I might add. They are doing fine. I hope that influence from my father has been passed along and will continue to be passed along.

TB: I donít know if you want to elaborate on your main course of study at Western?

GP: What did I do? I was filling in all the holes that I hadnít filled in when I went to the University of Washington. I had to have a lot of psychology courses and education-related courses and fill in some of the science stuff for my bachelorís degree in physical science. I donít know I would have to go look at a transcript or something!

TB: Were you ever sorry that you got out of the sciences then, since those had been your favorite classes? Did you ever miss that?

GP: No, not really. What I found out was that my mind isnít oriented toward scientific things. Iím more of a conceptual thinker. I have some ability to process mathematical stuff and scientific things, but itís nowhere near as good a mind as is necessary to move on in science. Thatís a hard concept for people to understand. The president of Harvard got fired because he made a difference or a distinction between men and women. He said men are pretty good at this analytical stuff and if you look at the top, women arenít up there. But if you look at the conceptual things like artistic and music things that are different, there are a lot of women. They said, ďYou canít tell us that kind of stuff! We donít want you around here!Ē Itís not politically correct.

TB: What did you enjoy most then about being on campus? Our question is, what activity did you enjoy the most?

GP: I was a married guy when I was there. Of course, I enjoyed watching the campus change. Where youíve got that big fountain in Red Square used to be my practice field! That kind of stuff. I used to be able to go over to the gym and do some gym ratting, just playing ball and things like that. They built all these new buildings down there heading down toward Twenty-first Street. Theyíve got all these dorms up there now on the hillside. There just used to be this one little thing there!

TB: Yes, it has changed a lot.

GP: I moved to [Bellingham] in 1948 and I was there living near the campus or going up there quite a bit. Even when I was in high school I would go up there and do a lot of research projects. My uncle also went to Western. He was my motherís brother. He started at Western in 1937 or 1938.

TB: What was his name?

GP: John Cornwell. He was up there until the war broke out and then he went into the service and became a Navy flier. He served on aircraft carriers throughout the Pacific theater flying torpedo bombers. Then he came back to Western in 1945, 1946 or whenever the war was over. We visited him then. We werenít living up there then, but we came in 1948. My uncle and my dad, theyíve all had a big association with Western, so Iím just kind of naturally attracted to the place.

TB: Excellent.

GP: Itís like home to me.

TB: Excellent; any other thoughts about either your time at Campus School or your time at Western or any other thoughts about your fatherís career at Western?

GP: Most of what I have are the memories of the time, of the place when I was there. I used to go to the football games that they had over at the old Battersby Field. Since then theyíve had Civic Stadium built and I donít even know where that is! I would watch the basketball games at the gym when I was a kid. I can remember going up there and watching Johnny OíBrien play when he was from Seattle University. Wow! All-American!  I remember guys like Dick Ravenhorst from Lynden, the basketball player. Some of these guys became my childhood idols and whatnot, so I remember all that. Of course, during the Sixties I wasnít there. In the Seventies I was just there as a little bit older student. My parents lived there at the time, so I had my Mom and Dad; he was still working there. We all had family there in Bellingham. My youngest son was born in Bellingham. I have a lot of fond memories of the place. Then we left and we were in California for twenty one years I guess. I havenít really been back much to see the area. I think I took just a little short tour up there one time and I didnít recognize too much!

TB: It has changed!

GP: Well, you put in parking lots and things like that. I remember kind of the way it was, not specifically the way it is.

TB: Right, well, anything else?

GP: No, I donít know what else we can do here that has to do with Campus School and Western. I enjoyed my time there, I made a lot of lifelong friends, I still have them to this day!

TB: Can you come up with any good reason why that is? It seems unusual to me, but there are definitely a lot of you that have kept in contact and consider yourselves to be lifelong friends. I think itís wonderful.

GP: Well Iíll give you an example. Even when you go to the high school reunions, youíll see people around there you havenít seen for fifty years and you canít recognize them. You canít recognize the women! [Laughter] And if you do, you say, ďI wonder who that is, oh, I remember who that was.Ē No contact. But automatically, the Campus School kids gravitate toward each other,  ĎOh yeah, how have you been?í ĎLet me hear what youíve been doing!í ĎOh, thatís too bad!í Stuff like that. We sort of have developed a bond there with the Campus School groups that you associated with and not with anybody else. Itís just like the Whatcom kids and the Fairhaven kids; they all group together.  Well weíre the Campus School group and we kind of group together.

TB: So itís just probably because you went to school for so long together.

GP: Something like that.  

TB: Okay, well if you donít have anything else, thatís all I have, and I will say thank you very much.